Guru Maharaja: You took harinam. You were a disciple of somebody here in ISKCON(Harikesa) and you came to me.

Gopal Prema: Yes, I came to you.

GM: Do you remember?

GP: Yes I remember.

GM: And, now it seems. I saw your letter that you address, "I ,so and so, mahatma, om vishnupad, paramahamsa", so and so, long letter.

GP: Yes, because...

GM: Sir. I do not understand your language and your sadhana. Even these paramahamsas also never write like that. ... paramahamsa, our Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Swami Maharaja never write, paramahamsas, that "I vishnupad paramahamsa", they never write like in that letter.

GP: Yes, I understand what you are talking. The paramahamsa...

GM: Because, if it may be out of ignorance you have written this, but anyhow, no offence. If not it will be offence at the feet of all these vaisnavas, our paramahamsas. You should not write like that.

GP: Yes, but this is normal for a vaisnava. Because every vaisnava is paramahamsa who have contact with Krishna, because he can divide the milk from the water, and nectar from the, you know, from the something which is not nectar. This actually, is the meaning of paramahamsa, and that is normal stage for everybody who have contact with Krishna.

Vishnu Maharaja: Who told you this? How you say, parmahamsa means, what is the meaning?

GP: Swan. You know.

VM: Swan?

GP: High swan.

VM: And  high swan means, ... only compared it to swan. There is four, sannyas ashram, four kinds. One kuticaka, bahudaka, hamsa, paramahamsa. Four types. First, bahudaka, kuticaka. What is bahudaki? Kuticaki? Who is only taking only one time for one man. They never go out. That is see, kuticaka. Another they are taking madhukari.....taking, everywhere going to get little, they take like this, madukari, they are see kuticaka and other see bahudaka. And hamsa who is free from material conflict. Then paramahamsa he is the topmost left. Tapas, but you don't compare like a part swan. This is meaning of hamsa, paramahamsa, 4 kinds of sannyasis.

GM: Your face doesn't seem so cruel, yet heart....

VM: This is the meaning. You don't compare to this starting, you know.

GP: Because, since ten years, you know, I'm speaking all day, night with Lord Krishna

VM: OK, we are, I am 35(?25) years. I am brahmacari. I am also.

GP: No. I am speaking with Lord Krishna all the time.

VM: Yes. I also, we are also. I am also speaking but this is not...

GP: So, the goal, the goal of life is...

VM: The goal of life OK but..

GM: You are a vaisnava, so they offer you dandavats. Forgive and forget. Now all of you be happy and do bhajan.

GP What you say? Didn't understand?

GM: I requested...

VM: All you are vaisnavas. We are offering to all, everybody respects. And don't you do like this and do bhajan and you don't pose one like this.

GM: At your letter. Don't talk like that.

GP: Yeah, I know what you mean. But when you have contact with Krishna, personally, you don't have to follow any material dharma from this material world.

VM: Therefore, we should not pose. Some pose.

GP: What means pose?

VM: Like some hamsa, paramahamsa, like this. This is not, maharaja which he's mentioned you, you should not pose like this. We write like this maybe after disappear, these disciples they are glorifying like this, but in presence nobody or no one demanding like this. This is, if you do, after day, tomorrow, anothers they will do also. You see it will be like this.

GP: But, what is the use of this worldly etiquette, you know, because I personally...

VM: This is spiritual, not worldly.

GP: But this is worldly etiquette.

Somebody: No see if it is worldly why you are making? Maharaja see Krishna for last 90 years. You have experience? Then you ought to go up again? Why?

VM: Yes.

GP: I understand what he is talking. But you know, what I want to say, when you are speaking with Krishna all the time, you know, and I for example. These my disciples here...

GM: (laughs)

VM: No one is speaking with Krishna.

GP: No one? Than what are you thinking bhakti yoga?

GM: I have no, when he is asking...

Somebody: Ghost, the ghost, you are speaking with ghost.

GP: What is the meaning of bhakti-yoga if you don't speak with Krishna?

VM: No. No. Krishna's spoke in scriptures.

GP: Yes? What?

VM: To do. To follow.

GP: What?

VM: What he is, see. What he said in scriptures. Only scripture is the evidence. Sadhu, guru and sastra.

GP: Sastra. And Krishna. But Krishna spoke all that.

VM: No. Krishna already spoken. Not he is necessary to speak now. He's spoken in scriptures.

GP: But. Do you have contact with Krishna?

VM: I repeat your "Krishna is saying like this, Krishna is saying like this" according to my speculation. This is not proper. Krishna spoke in scriptures. Scripture is the evidence full of our religion.

GM: They talk like this?

VM: I am talking with Krishna he says.

Somebody: For 10 years.

VM: Not 10 years, I am talking with Krishna he is saying like this.

GP: Since the beginning of life, but ten years I am talking with Krishna all the time, day and night.

GM: One who talks with Krishna will never reveal it to others.

Others: Yes! Haribol! Bhakti vaibhava puri maharaja ki – jay!

GP: What he says?

GM: Who ... Krishna, asking Krishna, they never explain it to others.

Somebody: It is very personal.

GM: I tell you that when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was at Vrindavan, Akrura ghat he was staying, and there thousands of people were coming to Vrindavan. And all of them, to all of them he asked "where are you going?" "Now we are going to Kaliya ghat where Krishna gives darsan night, at twelve o'clock".

GP: Then you think,...

VM: This is in Chaitanya Caritamrita.

GM: See, after hearing this, his attendant, Balabhadra Bhattacarya, he now said: "Mahaprabhu please bless me, please allow me to go and see Krishna." And then he put a slap on his cheeks. He said: "You are a fool. Krishna is giving darsan? You go tomorrow." Then tomorrow morning all of them returning. Everybody he asked: "Have you seen Krishna?" "No. No." Everybody says: "How can you see? We saw in the boat, at the end of that boat a lamp is there and that is, he is a fisherman, he has a fish net catching fish in it. And that boat dancing, it is Kaliya, and the boat is like this and it is hood and above his hood is a lamp." They imagined that. So, they are all fools. So, they offered that person. But throughout the night they had no sleep. They returned back early in the morning. Mahaprabhu asked: "Did you see Krishna?" They said: "No. I have never seen Krishna. None has seen Krishna. Never seen Krishna. In Kali-yuga Krishna giving darsan is impossible", my dear sir.

GP: Impossible?

GM: And if Krishna talks to you and Krishna darsan gives to, very good, very good. We never. If you are actually, you have the vision of Krishna, then you are a great soul. But Kali-yuga. What can we say? That we are not denying it, we are not denying it.

GP: Sorry, the teachings of bhakti-yoga is to meet Krishna...(end of available recording)